Go Back  S2000 Forums > Technical > Wheels / Tires / Suspension
suspension problem: my s2000 is 1/4 inch lower just on the front left suspension >

suspension problem: my s2000 is 1/4 inch lower just on the front left suspension

suspension problem: my s2000 is 1/4 inch lower just on the front left suspension

Old 08-31-2009, 02:37 PM
  #1  
Member
Thread Starter
 
HondamakesS2000s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: MD (HoCo)
Posts: 94
suspension problem: my s2000 is 1/4 inch lower just on the front left suspension

I have an ap1(2001) with 68000 miles. I recently slammed the breaks, the car slowed from about 60 miles per hour to 20 and then I had to make a full right turn at the last moment (20 miles per hour to 0) to avoid the car in front of me. I thought nothing of it, considering the suspension, both springs and shocks, (MAYBE another component), should be able to handle that kind of pressure, an emergency brake with full right turn at 20mph to 0. Couple days later I noticed the car veering and steering oddly, less than normal STEERING WHEEL pressure when I turned left compared to turning right. I checked the height of the car, measuring each wheel well height from ground to the top of wheelwell. Three sides were all the same but the front left wheel well sat 1/4' lower. I drove the car around, and found that the car veers left when accel, veer right when brake. The car used to accel and brake in a straight line. I do not know if this problem is the result of the emergency braking (I have a hard time imagining how that caused this). A honda suspension-only mechanic took a took at the car for an hour and could not find anything wrong with the suspension, nothing was tweeked or bent (all the measurements were proper) He test drove it twice, once me in the car. He said he could not feel a difference in STEERING and said that the veering is due to the 1/4' difference which he said he sees all the time. He said that changing the springs are not at all guaranteed to bring the car back to its proper height and that the difference was probably caused by a gradual wear, not a sudden bend or "failure" caused by the emergency braking turn. He said this was a natural sagging of the car and offered the solution of getting aftermarket height adjustable struts (spring and shock assembly). What do you guys think about this? Is he correct? I dont understand how a 1/4' sag just on the front right tire "gradually happens", albeit it is the drivers seat so has to support a bit more weight. If I were to get a set(4 or maybe 2???) of adjustable struts and increase the height on the one tire, would that work? I want to maintain optimum handling (factory or slightly stiffer). Any specific strut recommendations? Should I try installing a new or used FACTORY spring?

Another thing, the car has 4 different tires on.(money went to a set of track tires) But the tread depths and the tire heights are all the same. And this problem was not present even when I had 3 new tires and 1 completely worn tire. The tech said, not-so-suredly, "it could be the tires.....you should get matching tires..." righttttt...thats the problem....NO....really i dont think thats the problem. All the tires are at 32psi.

Anyway, sorry the post was so long but i wanted to be through. Thanks for reading and ANY INPUT would be greatly appreciated.

Last edited by HondamakesS2000s; 08-31-2009 at 03:01 PM.
HondamakesS2000s is offline  
Old 08-31-2009, 02:48 PM
  #2  
S2000.com Sponsor
 
turbosix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: dallas
Posts: 4,329
your rear tire pressures are off, that will cause the car to veer under accel / decel

the ride height will not be exact side to side, dont worry about it.

not to mention, go get someone to measure the ride height while you're sittin in the car.
turbosix is offline  
Old 08-31-2009, 02:55 PM
  #3  
S2000.com Sponsor
 
turbosix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: dallas
Posts: 4,329
p.s. thread title says front left

your thread says front right.
turbosix is offline  
Old 08-31-2009, 03:02 PM
  #4  
Member
Thread Starter
 
HondamakesS2000s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: MD (HoCo)
Posts: 94
thanks fixed that....all tires at 32 psi, measured today
HondamakesS2000s is offline  
Old 08-31-2009, 03:39 PM
  #5  
Senior Member
 
jagg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The Endless Mountains
Posts: 5,413
bad idea to have mismatched rubber on an S.
jagg is offline  
Old 08-31-2009, 03:46 PM
  #6  
Member
Thread Starter
 
HondamakesS2000s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: MD (HoCo)
Posts: 94
the problem is the 1/4' inch lower on one corner....mismatched tires may account for the veering but not the drop
HondamakesS2000s is offline  
Old 08-31-2009, 03:49 PM
  #7  
S2000.com Sponsor
 
turbosix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: dallas
Posts: 4,329
not seeing how 1/4" lower is really a problem, duder.
turbosix is offline  
Old 08-31-2009, 03:52 PM
  #8  
Senior Member
 
jagg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The Endless Mountains
Posts: 5,413
not seeing how 1/4" lower is really a problem, duder.
me neither.
jagg is offline  
Old 08-31-2009, 04:31 PM
  #9  
Senior Member
 
desmo4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 1,766
You talk about 3 new tires and one bald and 4 different tires. I think you made your own problem. This car is very sensitive to tires. Cheap or mismatched tires is a recipe for disaster. And you should probably run the rear tires a few ponds softer than the fronts. I run RE-01R's at 36 33.

Jonathan
desmo4 is offline  
Old 08-31-2009, 08:58 PM
  #10  
Member
Thread Starter
 
HondamakesS2000s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: MD (HoCo)
Posts: 94
the mismatched tires are not causing the 1/4' drop. The car handles horribly due to the mismatched height, not the tires. Not saying tires dont affect handling, just no way near the extent that i am experiencing with my car. Also, mismatched tires or even uneven tread depths cannot cause a car's suspension to "sag" a 1/4'.

so the problem is how do i fix the 1/4' drop (all other sides are the same height within 1/16'). Try new factory springs? mine has 68000 miles on them. Or get aftermarket, height adjustable coilovers and make the lower side higher?

im not looking for a height drop. i want to match or slightly better factory handling and match factory car height. This greatly limits the coilovers (spring and shock), or springs (keep factory shocks) that I can get. around $1000-1500 for coilovers and much less for just springs.

Noone has had a problem with significant height differences that cause significant handling problems?

Last edited by HondamakesS2000s; 08-31-2009 at 09:00 PM.
HondamakesS2000s is offline  
Old 08-31-2009, 09:20 PM
  #11  
Senior Member
 
TheCarGuy2021's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA
Posts: 1,327
Originally Posted by HondamakesS2000s View Post
the mismatched tires are not causing the 1/4' drop. The car handles horribly due to the mismatched height, not the tires. Not saying tires dont affect handling, just no way near the extent that i am experiencing with my car. Also, mismatched tires or even uneven tread depths cannot cause a car's suspension to "sag" a 1/4'.

so the problem is how do i fix the 1/4' drop (all other sides are the same height within 1/16'). Try new factory springs? mine has 68000 miles on them. Or get aftermarket, height adjustable coilovers and make the lower side higher?

im not looking for a height drop. i want to match or slightly better factory handling and match factory car height. This greatly limits the coilovers (spring and shock), or springs (keep factory shocks) that I can get. around $1000-1500 for coilovers and much less for just springs.

Noone has had a problem with significant height differences that cause significant handling problems?
Was the car thrown on the alignment rack to check out caster/camber/toe/scrub radius/steering axis inclination/included angle/thrust angle/etc.? Did you measure the ride height at all 4 corners to check if it is in specification?

A height drop alone (1/16" or 1") is NOT going to cause the symptoms you described. A sag could cause a suspension factor to change such as caster/camber/etc which could cause the symptoms you described but I highly doubt a 1/4" drop is going to cause anything to happen.

A mechanic looking over the suspension components does not mean squat if he didn't throw it on the alignment rack afterwards.

Stop playing the guessing game, spend a few bones and throw some matching tires on it, take it to a professional (if your Honda guy is telling you there's nothing you can do without putting it on the alignment rack, he is not a professional), spend a few bucks to get it diagnosed and fixed properly.

Last edited by TheCarGuy2021; 08-31-2009 at 09:23 PM.
TheCarGuy2021 is offline  
Old 08-31-2009, 10:20 PM
  #12  
Member
Thread Starter
 
HondamakesS2000s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: MD (HoCo)
Posts: 94
reply

the tech checked all the measurements for about an hour on an alignment rack....you're right..must be perfectly flat. The measurements were all well within factory limits.
HondamakesS2000s is offline  
Old 08-31-2009, 10:23 PM
  #13  
Resident Track Whore :)
 
Vezna31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,734
Originally Posted by TheCarGuy2021 View Post
Was the car thrown on the alignment rack to check out caster/camber/toe/scrub radius/steering axis inclination/included angle/thrust angle/etc.? Did you measure the ride height at all 4 corners to check if it is in specification?

A height drop alone (1/16" or 1") is NOT going to cause the symptoms you described. A sag could cause a suspension factor to change such as caster/camber/etc which could cause the symptoms you described but I highly doubt a 1/4" drop is going to cause anything to happen.

A mechanic looking over the suspension components does not mean squat if he didn't throw it on the alignment rack afterwards.

Stop playing the guessing game, spend a few bones and throw some matching tires on it, take it to a professional (if your Honda guy is telling you there's nothing you can do without putting it on the alignment rack, he is not a professional), spend a few bucks to get it diagnosed and fixed properly.
My first thought was tire pressures too. Then I thought of the wheel alignment after seeing 32 PSI all around. Different brand tires have different circumference and that will contribute. Combine a bad alignment and the different sizes and the sensitivity of the car in the first place and that could easily be the problem.

I would not spend an arm and a leg on a suspension. It only has 68k miles. I didn't replace my shocks until 100k miles and 15 track days. Throw a few track spins, even an accidental roll off the back of the trailer (1 foot drop) and my car still handled well.

I also remember Chaz's car sitting low on one side the first time he did a track day. My buddy noticed it sitting next to my car in the parking lot. It wound up being from it being out of alignment, very badly. Get that done first.
Vezna31 is offline  
Old 08-31-2009, 10:37 PM
  #14  
Member
Thread Starter
 
HondamakesS2000s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: MD (HoCo)
Posts: 94
reply

the tech was very knowledgeable and through with the measurements..measured all four corners...even the tire drop length(when lifted on the rack) It seems unlikely but he could have missed something. he only does suspension and alignment at the honda dealership so im not sure theres a more qualified person to take the car to.....i can take it to a suspension shop but like i said he was qualified and through. If a second diagnosis does not provide an explanation, my options are as follows by priority:

1. replace just that corner with a factory shock (i see about 3/4 less turn of the coil if i just look at it from the side of the car(car sitting on level ground) compared to the opposite side. this also means I see less number of "rungs" or rotations of the spring)

2. replace all four tires even though the tire treads are all equal, they are different tires. I have used mismatching tires with only a little effect on the HANDLING. (NOT TRACTION)

3. alignment

4. get a set of adjustable aftermarket coilovers or springs that will match my factory shocks. Either way, the HEIGHT and HANDLING("stiffness") must be similar to factory specs. not likely to happen though.

Last edited by HondamakesS2000s; 08-31-2009 at 10:46 PM.
HondamakesS2000s is offline  
Old 08-31-2009, 10:44 PM
  #15  
Member
Thread Starter
 
HondamakesS2000s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: MD (HoCo)
Posts: 94
reply

will get a second diagnosis but the tech said the alignment was good (can he say that without actually doing the alignment?) Most likely I will first get an alignment and 4 new tires. any opinions on potenza re-11 (stock) vs. dunlop direzza sport z1 star spec vs. yokohama s drive? the dunlops and yokohamas are cheaper but i have heard good things about both.

Also, dont forget the emergency brake and full right turn couple days before i noticed the symptoms. But then again the spring should easily take that kind of pressure. maybe something was slightly tweaked or bent. (now thinking thats also unlikely although more likely....sigh...)

Last edited by HondamakesS2000s; 08-31-2009 at 11:01 PM.
HondamakesS2000s is offline  
Old 09-01-2009, 05:31 AM
  #16  
Philosopher
 
DJJSR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Hooterville
Posts: 1,896
Originally Posted by HondamakesS2000s View Post
Another thing, the car has 4 different tires on.(money went to a set of track tires)
How about putting your track tires on and see if it makes a difference?
DJJSR is offline  
Old 09-01-2009, 05:32 AM
  #17  
Got S2000?
 
Jim21680's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 1,971
I'm riding on the Dunlop Z1s right now...love 'em. And for some reason, they're pretty darn cheap on the Rack. I'm sure the RE-11s & S-drives are damn good too, but I can't comment on them. I can, however, guarantee that you will enjoy the Z1s.
Jim21680 is offline  
Old 09-01-2009, 05:32 AM
  #18  
Senior Member
 
jagg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The Endless Mountains
Posts: 5,413
maybe you should throw a round of rubber in the low side.
jagg is offline  
Old 09-01-2009, 05:32 AM
  #19  
Member
Thread Starter
 
HondamakesS2000s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: MD (HoCo)
Posts: 94
reply

they are in pennsylvania right now, 4 hours away.

however, im beginning to think that the tech only checked the mechanical components and measurements regarding the suspension, not the alignment. maybe the emergency break with a full right turn caused misalignment which would explain all the driving symptoms but im not sure if it explains a 1/4' drop on that left front corner.

Should an alignment done after I put a a set of matching tires or will my mismatched (but equal treads) tires create a problem if i have the alignment done with them on and then change to a new set?

Last edited by HondamakesS2000s; 09-01-2009 at 05:38 AM.
HondamakesS2000s is offline  
Old 09-01-2009, 05:47 AM
  #20  
Senior Member
 
jagg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The Endless Mountains
Posts: 5,413
New tires first, then alignment.
jagg is offline  
Old 09-01-2009, 05:50 AM
  #21  
Member
Thread Starter
 
HondamakesS2000s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: MD (HoCo)
Posts: 94
thanks for the quick response

can misalignment cause vehicle height drop? (1/4')
HondamakesS2000s is offline  
Old 09-01-2009, 06:02 AM
  #22  
Senior Member
 
jagg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The Endless Mountains
Posts: 5,413
maybe under the most bizzarre of circumstances, but not what you've described as the alleged culprit......(not to mention, the effect was not immediate)

new tires.....align. If the car handles correctly at that point, then don't sweat the 1/4 inch drop.

As you've said, you already had a pro look at it, and he didn't see anything wrong.

Common sense says you've got to attend to the obvious problems first.

GET SOME RUBBER, then have the alignment checked.
jagg is offline  
Old 09-01-2009, 07:07 AM
  #23  
awesome
 
lonestarbuzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: arlington
Posts: 1,919
dude, you are all over the place here.

get new tires and an alignment. the rears should certainly be matching, any difference in circumference (tread wear, size of tire, brand idiocyncracies) can put a MAJOR strain on your diff.

go to an alignment shop and a tire shop. NTB does both, and the one by us was very good with the alignments.
lonestarbuzz is offline  
Old 09-01-2009, 07:48 AM
  #24  
S2000.com Sponsor
 
turbosix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: dallas
Posts: 4,329
goin around your *** to get to your elbow.

jesus christ.
turbosix is offline  
Old 09-02-2009, 08:23 AM
  #25  
Member
Thread Starter
 
HondamakesS2000s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: MD (HoCo)
Posts: 94
the plan is to install 4 new tires this week, get an alignment and see what that does. i dont have very high hopes that it will solve the drop, but maybe the handling will return to normal.
HondamakesS2000s is offline  
Old 09-02-2009, 08:38 AM
  #26  
Senior Member
 
s2000isu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: pa
Posts: 2,528
all tires are not equal sized even though they may be rated the same.
s2000isu is offline  
Old 09-02-2009, 06:24 PM
  #27  
Member
Thread Starter
 
HondamakesS2000s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: MD (HoCo)
Posts: 94
isu, i measured the tire sizes as well. no noticeable differences, maybe 1/10'... maybe. but we will see what the new matching tires will do
HondamakesS2000s is offline  
Old 09-02-2009, 06:48 PM
  #28  
Senior Member
 
s2000isu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: pa
Posts: 2,528
well over 1 inch is a big difference.
s2000isu is offline  
Old 09-03-2009, 06:19 AM
  #29  
Member
Thread Starter
 
HondamakesS2000s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: MD (HoCo)
Posts: 94
it veers to the right when accel, veers to the right when release throttle or brake......i blame that on the 1/4' drop in the front right....every other corner is the same height. But we will see if thats the case when new tires are put on and an alignment is done.
HondamakesS2000s is offline  
Old 09-03-2009, 10:15 AM
  #30  
Senior Member
 
TheCarGuy2021's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA
Posts: 1,327
Originally Posted by HondamakesS2000s View Post
i blame that on the 1/4' drop in the front right....
Have you disregarded everything said in this thread?

Let me summarize it for you.
A drop in a corner of the suspension will NOT cause any symptoms alone.

Reasons for a pull during acceleration and braking will be revealed on the alignment rack if the pre-alignment inspection checks out. You should also NEVER throw a car on an alignment rack with mismatched size/brand tires.

Stop playing "god" with your car because you are obviously not qualified or trained to do so. Take the advice that was given to you, come back with the results.
TheCarGuy2021 is offline  
Old 09-03-2009, 11:10 AM
  #31  
Senior Member
 
desmo4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 1,766
Well said

Jonathan
desmo4 is offline  
Old 09-03-2009, 05:28 PM
  #32  
Member
Thread Starter
 
HondamakesS2000s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: MD (HoCo)
Posts: 94
we shall see when the new tires and alignment are done....and btw i make my living fixing cars....i believe its called a body shop.....i also believe that includes the suspension.....and finally, i believe improper weight distribution WILL cause handling problems. but once again, i will wait til new tires and an alignment. how this turns out will be interesting to say the least

Last edited by HondamakesS2000s; 09-03-2009 at 05:33 PM.
HondamakesS2000s is offline  
Old 09-03-2009, 05:52 PM
  #33  
Senior Member
 
jagg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The Endless Mountains
Posts: 5,413
and btw i make my living fixing cars....
No offense son, but that sounds like the biggest pile of horse-pucky that I've ever heard in my life.

Sweepin' the floor in somebody's shop don't count as wrench turnin'.


jagg
jagg is offline  
Old 09-03-2009, 06:04 PM
  #34  
Senior Member
 
TheCarGuy2021's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA
Posts: 1,327
Originally Posted by HondamakesS2000s View Post
i believe improper weight distribution WILL cause handling problems.
1) Weight distribution has nothing to do with a pull.
2) A "sag" will not affect weight distribution.

So you work at a body shop, cool. I'll be sure to steer clear of it.

What certifications do you have that qualify you to do all of this, yet you still need advice from a forum?
TheCarGuy2021 is offline  
Old 09-03-2009, 06:10 PM
  #35  
Senior Member
 
jagg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The Endless Mountains
Posts: 5,413
1) Weight distribution has nothing to do with a pull.
2) A "sag" will not affect weight distribution.

CarGuy,

I edited that out of my last post, because the OP wouldn't get it anyway.....I swear bro.

I figured I'd just call b.s. for the obvious reasons.


jagg
jagg is offline  
Old 09-03-2009, 06:16 PM
  #36  
Senior Member
 
TheCarGuy2021's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA
Posts: 1,327
Originally Posted by jagg View Post
CarGuy,

I edited that out of my last post, because the OP wouldn't get it anyway.....I swear bro.

I figured I'd just call b.s. for the obvious reasons.


jagg

On the same page, as usual.
TheCarGuy2021 is offline  
Old 09-03-2009, 06:29 PM
  #37  
Senior Member
 
jagg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The Endless Mountains
Posts: 5,413
Hey ! Car Dummy.....try 'n keep up.

(personally, I think the posts are designed to elicit a particular intense response......nobody's this stupid.)
jagg is offline  
Old 09-03-2009, 06:31 PM
  #38  
Senior Member
 
TheCarGuy2021's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA
Posts: 1,327
Originally Posted by HondamakesS2000s View Post
I recently slammed the breaks
Need say more?
TheCarGuy2021 is offline  
Old 09-04-2009, 08:06 AM
  #39  
Member
Thread Starter
 
HondamakesS2000s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: MD (HoCo)
Posts: 94
I AM GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i guess i was trying to **** someone off with the whole "i believe" speech. anyway, tire change, alignment. if problem not solved, new spring. if the new spring solves the drop and the problem then i guess i, the idiot, was right. but i dont want to do new springs....hmmm....now im conflicted.

i paint cars actually, not so much body work

Last edited by HondamakesS2000s; 09-04-2009 at 08:14 AM.
HondamakesS2000s is offline  
Old 09-04-2009, 09:35 AM
  #40  
S2000.com Sponsor
 
turbosix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: dallas
Posts: 4,329
are you and zacxks the same person, wtf
turbosix is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: suspension problem: my s2000 is 1/4 inch lower just on the front left suspension


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.