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Performance Upgrades

Old 02-07-2007, 07:43 PM
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Performance Upgrades

For All You Power And Performance People Out There, You May Find The Following Info Interesting. Motor Trend Recently Ran A Column By A Funny Car Champ- Tony Pedregon. Someone Had Written In And Asked How To Best Spend $500.00 On Engine Upgrades. His Response Was To First Install A Cold Air Intake. For Every Degree You Cool The Air, You Can Gain 1 Hp. And You Could See A 5 To 10 Hp Increase. His Last Suggestion Was To Install A Freer Flowing Exhaust From The Exhaust Ports Back For Another 10 To 20 Hp. His Response Sounds Relatively Accurate, Except That Those Mods Would Probably Cost More Like $800.00 To $1000.00, Even If You Supply The Labor. I Might Add That The Cold Air Intake Makes The V-tech Change Over Sound Even Sweeter. Spring Cannot Get Here Fast Enough.
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Old 02-07-2007, 08:01 PM
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Unfortunately we won't see those kind of gains with the S. You may get a couple of HP from a CAI and MAYBE 10 from an exhaust, but the cost is VERY high as you said.
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Old 02-07-2007, 08:28 PM
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Go's right on the money regardin' the improvements to Stewie. I'd guess that with a less efficient mill those numbers might apply, but our particular brand of internal combustion is really pretty efficient from the get-go.
If you could pull another 15 HP out'a Stewie with bolt-ons I'd be surprised.
But'cha godda doo whut'cha godda doo. Right?
Be well.
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Old 02-08-2007, 12:08 PM
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As Java said, you'll only see those gains from less performance oriented cars. The S (and many other performance cars) intakes and exhausts are designed so well that changing them sometimes results in less power. But hey, the sound is cool......lol
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Old 02-08-2007, 12:57 PM
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It's funny, I have a ramair intake with a K&N filter on my Integra and sometimes the S sounds like it has one on too. It's that swirling air vacuum sound.

Yeah I am somewhat disappointed you can't get larger HP gains out of the S from your I/H/E boltons, it seems if you want some big jumps, forced induction is the way to go.
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Old 02-08-2007, 01:33 PM
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Yeah Dark, but the flip side of that disappointment is probably part of the reason that alodda us were drawn to it in the first place: It's designers did their homework n' it's one very efficient engine n' unit right off the assembly line.
With any of the multitude of vehicles that started off life as more a cheap means of transportation n' then wound up bein' "improved" by the manufacturer by addin' better suspension, tires n' HP in some "GT" version, small improvements really register with those cars.
Stewie was brought into the world kickin' n' screamin' n' lookin' for some *** to kick from the get-go. It was designed hot out'a the box. So it ain't all that easy to "improve" it.
'Bottom line is that bolt-on improvement results of some Clearasil, J.C.Whitney pile'a add-ons can't be compared to makin' improvements on somethin' as sophisticated as Stewie. N' I guess that must matter to us as the biggest show of our faith is that we were all willin' to part with a substantial chunk'a change for the price of admission.
Be well.
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Old 02-08-2007, 02:34 PM
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This is true, it costs quite a bit of money to get a 1.6L or 1.8L Honda motor to 240 crank HP whereas we have it off the bat. I would just love around 300WHP with minor boltons, but I guess a supercharger would be the ticket.
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Old 02-08-2007, 02:55 PM
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Interesting to note that the exact same kind of threads have been going for 15-16 years now on the Miata net. Most of us gave up years ago on getting any measurable gains from intake and exhaust and just put 20psi to the intake side and shazaam, 300hp from 1.8 liters! I am new here and still havent found the right S but most of my friends are very reluctant to add forced induction on the Vtec like we do on the Miatas. Is this a real concern or imagined? The Miata benefits from being designed originally as a turbo engine for the GLC Turbo and so all the blocks were made that way. Above about 250hp though, you have to build up the internals some. Is the S still reliable at 8-10psi boost?
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Old 02-08-2007, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Overdrive View Post
Interesting to note that the exact same kind of threads have been going for 15-16 years now on the Miata net. Most of us gave up years ago on getting any measurable gains from intake and exhaust and just put 20psi to the intake side and shazaam, 300hp from 1.8 liters! I am new here and still havent found the right S but most of my friends are very reluctant to add forced induction on the Vtec like we do on the Miatas. Is this a real concern or imagined? The Miata benefits from being designed originally as a turbo engine for the GLC Turbo and so all the blocks were made that way. Above about 250hp though, you have to build up the internals some. Is the S still reliable at 8-10psi boost?
What's the CR on a Miata compared to the S? I know some very reliable turbo Honda motors, it's the delicate balancing act of either high engine CR and low boost, or dropping lower compression pistons in and maybe a thicker headgasket and raising the boost level.
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Old 02-08-2007, 04:43 PM
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Darkshade

Originally Posted by DarkShade9 View Post
It's funny, I have a ramair intake with a K&N filter on my Integra and sometimes the S sounds like it has one on too. It's that swirling air vacuum sound.

Yeah I am somewhat disappointed you can't get larger HP gains out of the S from your I/H/E boltons, it seems if you want some big jumps, forced induction is the way to go.
THE K AND N CAI ON MY CAR COST $225.00. FOR NOT MUCH $ YOU CAN SUBSTANIALLY IMPROVE THE BREATHING ON THE STK. K AND N DYNOS SHOWED 10 HP INCREASE BUT WHO KNOWS. I DID IMMEDIATELY FEEL BETTER THROTTLE RESPONSE AND A LOT MORE NOISE WHEN V TECH KICKS IN. MAYBE IT'S A PSYCHOLOGICAL THING BECAUSE THE MOTOR IS LOUDER, I DON'T KNOW.
REMEMBER, MOST OF THE AIR RELATED RESTRICTIONS ARE THERE TO SATISFY THE E.P.A. REQUIREMENTS, NOT INCREASE THE POWER OUT OF THE ENGINE. HOWEVER, I WOULD AGREE THAT THE S2K IS DIFFICULT TO EXTRACT MORE POWER FROM BOLT ONS. THE OTHER "ADD ON" TO CONSIDER IS SENDING THE ECU OUT FOR A REFLASH, WHICH I DID SHORTLY AFTER THE C.A.I. WAS INSTALLED. AGAIN, I THINK THE E.P.A.'S REQUIREMENTS DO NOT ALLOW HONDA TO PROGRAM THE ECU FOR MAXIMUM POWER OUTPUT. A REFLASH TYPICALLY CHANGES THE FUEL/AIR RATIOS AS WELL AS TIMING.
TURBO CARS CAN SEE AS MUCH AS 30-35 HP FROM JUST THE REFLASH. I USED A COMPANY FROM CA., "JETCHIP", FOR THE REFLASH.

BUT IN THE LONG RUN, YOU JUST CAN'T BEAT FORCED INDUCTION FOR SOME REALLY IMPRESSIVE GAINS. SOMEDAY!
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Old 02-08-2007, 04:59 PM
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Adding Forced Induction

Originally Posted by Overdrive View Post
Interesting to note that the exact same kind of threads have been going for 15-16 years now on the Miata net. Most of us gave up years ago on getting any measurable gains from intake and exhaust and just put 20psi to the intake side and shazaam, 300hp from 1.8 liters! I am new here and still havent found the right S but most of my friends are very reluctant to add forced induction on the Vtec like we do on the Miatas. Is this a real concern or imagined? The Miata benefits from being designed originally as a turbo engine for the GLC Turbo and so all the blocks were made that way. Above about 250hp though, you have to build up the internals some. Is the S still reliable at 8-10psi boost?
BECAUSE THE S2K RUNS COMPRESSION AT 11.1 TO 1, YOU HAVE TO BE EXTREMELY CAREFUL WHEN ADDING A TURBO. TYPICALLY, THE MAX IS USUALLY 6-7 PSI. THE GUYS PUTTING LARGE TURBOS ON THEIR S2K'S ARE FIRST LOWERING THE COMPRESSION.
SUPERCHARGERS ARE MUCH SAFER AND I BELIEVE THE BEST WAY TO GO W THE S2K. IF REALLY LARGE GAINS IN HP ARE WHAT U ARE LOOKING FOR, THEN THE STOCK INTERNALS WOULD NEED TO BE BEEFED UP, EXCEEDINGLY EXPENSIVE. A SAFE SUPERCHGER SET UP WITH AROUND 6-7 P.S.I. WILL USUALLY GIVE YOU ANYWHERE FROM 325 TO 350 HP, OR POSSIBLY MORE IF U WANT TO RISK BLOWING UP YOUR ENGINE RUNNING HIGHER BOOST LEVELS! SO TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, IN MY VIEW, 8-10 PSI IS TOO MUCH BOOST TO RUN SAFELY.
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Old 02-08-2007, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by HONDADDICT View Post
. A SAFE SUPERCHGER SET UP WITH AROUND 6-7 P.S.I. WILL USUALLY GIVE YOU ANYWHERE FROM 325 TO 350 HP...
The stock Comptech set up w/AC for AP1 (5 lbs) will get you to about 290WHP. Bumping up to 7 lbs will put you at 300WHP.

Comptech w/AC for the AP2 (7 lb) will make about 310WHP

The stock Votech set up for AP1 or 2 (7 lbs) will come in at about 310WHP.

Your results may vary due to weather, altitude, dyno, tune, 'factory freak', or dyno operator.
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Old 02-08-2007, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by HONDADDICT View Post
THE OTHER "ADD ON" TO CONSIDER IS SENDING THE ECU OUT FOR A REFLASH, WHICH I DID SHORTLY AFTER THE C.A.I. WAS INSTALLED. AGAIN, I THINK THE E.P.A.'S REQUIREMENTS DO NOT ALLOW HONDA TO PROGRAM THE ECU FOR MAXIMUM POWER OUTPUT. A REFLASH TYPICALLY CHANGES THE FUEL/AIR RATIOS AS WELL AS TIMING.
TURBO CARS CAN SEE AS MUCH AS 30-35 HP FROM JUST THE REFLASH. I USED A COMPANY FROM CA., "JETCHIP", FOR THE REFLASH.
I believe only the '06 and '07's can be truely reflashed. If you want to gain about 8 WHP for around $300, a VAFC can be purchased and tuned by a KNOWLEDGABLE tuner and a dyno. When I was NA I had one and the tuner got 8 WHP and 6 lb. tq. out of mine
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Old 02-08-2007, 08:12 PM
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While the AEM EMS is expensive, it's the one true tool I would use for engine management if one is serious about HP. Add in the cost of a Comptech and installation/tuning, we're looking at around $7-8k...yikes. For what I bought my S for, add that to it, one could have a 700WHP MKIV Supra BEAST.

I have a VAFC in my Integra (I guess I could swap it out and put it in the S ) and it does let you change the VTEC crossover point as well as some fuel mapping, but there are conflicting reports about how it works, because OBDII ECU's tend to reset themselves from using a piggyback unit.
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Old 02-09-2007, 03:51 PM
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I Spoke W A Tuner Today Who Basically Said The Same Thing You Just Said Re: The Vafc. What Kind Of Difference In Performance Did You See W Your Integra And The Vafc? The Tuner I Spoke With Uses A Dyno Plus The Vafc To Find The Optimum V-tec Point And Changes It To Pull The Most Power From The Engine.
Why Is It That Owners Of Fast Cars Are Usually The Ones Looking For Even More Power? Let's Face It, The Only Way To Really Add Power Is W Forced Induction. We Should Probably Be Satisfied W What Our Cars Put Out For Power, But It Is Just So Tempting To Try To Squeeze Out A Bit More, If You Know What I Mean. Did You Ever Hear The Of Term "horsepower Junkie"? I'm Afraid There May Be A Few In Our Midst, Myself Included. Tough Habit.
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Old 02-09-2007, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by HONDADDICT View Post
Dark
I Spoke W A Tuner Today Who Basically Said The Same Thing You Just Said Re: The Vafc. What Kind Of Difference In Performance Did You See W Your Integra And The Vafc? The Tuner I Spoke With Uses A Dyno Plus The Vafc To Find The Optimum V-tec Point And Changes It To Pull The Most Power From The Engine.
Why Is It That Owners Of Fast Cars Are Usually The Ones Looking For Even More Power? Let's Face It, The Only Way To Really Add Power Is W Forced Induction. We Should Probably Be Satisfied W What Our Cars Put Out For Power, But It Is Just So Tempting To Try To Squeeze Out A Bit More, If You Know What I Mean. Did You Ever Hear The Of Term "horsepower Junkie"? I'm Afraid There May Be A Few In Our Midst, Myself Included. Tough Habit.
Honestly the only change I felt was when I moved the VTEC crossover point. There are no local tuners here and I didn't feel like driving 100 miles to a dyno to figure it out (right now it is at a base mapping, nothing special) I did feel a nice small gain from adding a ram air intake using a butt dyno, but VAFC was nil.
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