Killing Noise, the Good, Bad, and Ugly

Old 05-28-2014, 09:14 PM
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Killing Noise, the Good, Bad, and Ugly

Previous thread on killing noise but not complete solution:

https://www.s2000.com/forums/interio...ing-noise.html

It has taken a while, but I have pretty much completed what I set out to do with taming screaming Rebecca. It has been an interesting sojourn, I have learned a little more than I thought I knew about NVH (noise, vibration, harshness) and had some fun in the process.

Just a little recap, I have a stock 2009 car but the noise was fatiguing with the top up on longer freeway drives especially with the significant other. I wanted the most bang for the buck, and of course, wanted to proceed keeping it simple, stupid. I read up on the latest stuff, read lots of reviews, and jumped in.

Two products were used. First I settled on B Quiet Ultimate. I ordered 50' for about $150 delivered. I used just over 10 pounds for the install. (about 2/3 of it) It was as good as Dynamat, has no smell, easy to apply, and much cheaper.

The second product was a mix of 3 (soon to be 4) 3M Thinsulate materials. I was sold on Thinsulate early on. It has a precise manufactured micro fiber length for sound control. It is hydrophobic so it cannot absorb water. No mold, no smell ever. It is compressible. Easy to cut and apply. Super, super light. Tons of choices. That is why Mercedes and Honda (Acura) use it in new cars. It drove me to pursue its acquisition.


1) TAI2099S (8mm thick) can be used in areas where there is not much
space; only 8mm thick: 30" x 5 yds

2) TC3403: Very good performer (41mm thick)-->excellent at filling
cavities and compressing easy: 30" x 12yds

3) AU6002-5: Double-black scrim-->44mm thick...one of the best
absorbers:
30" x 3yds

4) AU2002-5: Double black scrim, I think it is about 10mm. Scrim is reinforced for strength and abrasion.


I found a contact at 3M who handles the Honda account and he sent me generous samples in return for a nice writeup testimonial. I asked him if I could mention him as a contact from interest generated on these forums. His response:

"In general, 3M does not have Thinsulate (TM) inside of the AAD Division
(Automotive Aftermarket Division); consequently, I do this stuff on
occasion but cannot afford to do it always....if you needed a little more
Thinsulate, I could probably arrange another short-roll or two; however,
my recommendation would be to have local body shops inquire to 3M to see if they can make it available in AAD...the problem is, we don't want to
cannibalize what is specked in on new models, either...."
end quote.

In the first thread you can see how I did the trunk. Others have said the impact from trunk insulation was not that great. True but I really went for thermal insulation too. Many times after a drive with a cooler in the well, it has been downright hot. No more. As a matter of fact, the surrounding trim is now cold/cool from the cooler nearby! Big, big difference.

Since then, I attacked the cockpit. It was a full 2 day job. I removed the seats, trim, and rolled the carpet forward under the dash. I did not apply anything forward of the cross member in front of the seats. Why? It was a bit more difficult to do so, I wanted to keep it easy. Second, were reports the biggest gain was from the passenger seat, especially behind. Third, I wanted to preserve the engine sound in the event the insulation was too effective.

I used no chemical prep. All I did was vacuum and wipe off dust. I had but did not really use the roller. I did not use my heat gun. I actually preferred it slightly cooler (65 degrees for weather) as the B Quiet could be moved around without it sticking like crazy. It was much easier to position that way. Once you press it in with your fingers, its not going anywhere. There was virtually no insulation by Honda. A few little pieces on the transmission tunnel and under the carpet. I left it all in place.

As you can see I did cover most of the floor, tunnel, and seat back area with B Quiet. I then cut out varying thicknesses of Thinsulate to cover on top. It is easy to cut and very compressible. Loved the stuff. I put some under the tunnel trim and even around the shifter. I cut long pieces to stuff in voids and channels. I just threaded it in a hole and it "fished" its way the length of the space easily. I did not have to completely disassemble all the trim pieces on the back. Easy. I even shoved some down around the top motors and made sure there was no mechanical interference.

Doors were next. Trim popped right off and I peeled back the water proof membrane about 1/3 to expose the opening in the bottom aft part. I just taped the loose flap up to get it out of the way. I put 3 or 4 door lengths of B Quiet on the skin between the impact tubes. I then cut out a single piece of the thick black Thinsulate mat and with a shot of spray adhesive, quickly put it in place on the door. I did this in less than a minute before the adhesive sets and becomes tacky preventing repositioning. I practiced the movement before applying to get it right. I made sure the window operation did not touch the material.
For the door trim, I put on a few strips of B Quiet; you only need 30% coverage anyway. I used the very thin Thinsulate on the trim as it does not interfere with reinstallation.
The doors now have more of a thunk than a clank when closing.

I cut out a tray shaped piece of the black, thick Thinsulate and just placed it loose on the tray. It compresses and not keep the top from coming down completely. You cannot see it. It absorbs reflective sound well.

Results:

I wish I had a decibel meter ( I found out about the app for that too late) so I could give objective feedback. I found the trunk by itself was not as great a sound reducer than I thought it might be. Others have said the same thing. I did get great thermal insulation.

The real surprise was the cockpit. It is noticeably quieter. My wife was impressed. The sound of the tires and transmission is very distant. The whine of the diff only comes through at certain speeds. The drone of the exhaust is muted and now comes from outside the car instead of through the floor. The engine is distinctly a front of the car sound. With the engine rpm at a highway steady state, you hear the drone not as an irritating edgy harmonic, but a muted hum. When you step on it, you get the old sound, it just comes at you from a different direction. Top down, all the sound is from the open spaces, not from your derrière.
With the top up, my wife and I found, for the first time, we could talk to each other at a normal "in a room" conversational level without having to raise our voice at all. I could hear the radio well, I checked the volume at a comfortable level; it was 20. It was not till I got above 55 when I was inclined to raise it up.
I really noticed the absence of ambient highway noise coming through the doors. It was a quiet "hole" when trucks and cars passed.
That was the big one. I wanted top up highway driving to be comfortable and I got it. When I step on it, I can hear that baby go. Top down, its almost the same, just the noise is from a different angle. It is muted from the floor. It seems more luxurious and has a quality feel to it.

But wait, there is more. I was intrigued with the Thinsulate, especially the really thin stuff. I played with some of it and found if I put some along the inside of the top behind the glass, it would fold right up and not interfere in any way. It settled the same, could put the top cover on the same. It DID make the top much more of a sound barrier. With the tray piece in place, it was becoming more like a hard top. A thin piece in the overhead rectangle. Boom. I asked for and received anther sample of Thinsulate that was the thin stuff but had an abrasion resistant double black scrim to match the interior. It is practically invisible. That is the next and I suppose, final page. I am going to fit Thinsulate to the folding frame on the sides back to the rear window. It takes the edge off that semi in the lane next to you. It also has the benefit of creating a barrier between the top and sharp edges of the folding mechanism so you are less likely to develop abrasion hot spots.

Here is the BQuiet and box it came it along with the installation supervisor:

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Here are the Thinsulate products used:
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This is the new thin black scrim to be used insulating the top. You can see how well it compresses.

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Last edited by cosmomiller; 05-28-2014 at 10:18 PM.
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Old 05-29-2014, 06:34 AM
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Wow! Pretty thorough! Glad it worked out for you. I installed some B-Quiet years ago and it has turned out to be a very good product.
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Old 05-29-2014, 08:25 AM
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Very good, Cosmo, thanks for posting. The documentation is excellent. Bad side is now I've got no excuse not to follow your example.
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Old 05-29-2014, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by agski View Post
Very good, Cosmo, thanks for posting. The documentation is excellent. Bad side is now I've got no excuse not to follow your example.
Good side, treat it like Honda built it, put up with the noise. Hell, these things are slightly civilized race cars in any case.

Jon
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Old 05-29-2014, 01:43 PM
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Damn dude, you really went all out! Glad it worked out for you!
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Old 05-29-2014, 03:34 PM
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Great write up Cos. You obviously drive the car waaaayyyy more than I do mine. Have to admit I would love to drive mine and yours back to back to see what the difference is really like. As 99% of my driving is cruising the beach it would be too much work for me.
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Old 05-29-2014, 11:30 PM
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Originally Posted by cdk456 View Post
You obviously drive the car waaaayyyy more than I do mine. Have to admit I would love to drive mine and yours back to back to see what the difference is really like. As 99% of my driving is cruising the beach it would be too much work for me.
I actually drive less than 7500 miles a year. It is not my DD; I would never park it in the employee lot (although there is another GPW S that I see there-put my card on the windshield with a note, no response) If I have to go downtown in rush hour traffic, I use my sacrificial 94 TBird.
I am about to pull the trigger on classic car insurance because I do drive it so little. Just for fun!
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Old 05-30-2014, 11:23 AM
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Nice writeup. Pictures were worth a thousand words...
Interestingly enough, once I replaced my OEM RE050's, there was a significant reduction in noise levels, top-up and down! I was frankly shocked how much quieter it got. I have no way to confirm this, but I've been told pretty much ANY tire is quieter than the RE050's!
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Old 05-30-2014, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by S2KMick View Post
Nice writeup. Pictures were worth a thousand words...
Interestingly enough, once I replaced my OEM RE050's, there was a significant reduction in noise levels, top-up and down! I was frankly shocked how much quieter it got. I have no way to confirm this, but I've been told pretty much ANY tire is quieter than the RE050's!
I installed new Pilot Super Sports right after the install. I actually had free time for the install as my old DZ101s were literally shot and one flat. I was waiting for the rebate sale at Costco. It does seem as if the tires might be a bit more quiet but now with this install at exactly the same time, its hard to say.
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Old 05-31-2014, 02:54 PM
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I have the classic car insurance for mine. Around 300.00 a year for agreed upon coverage of 25K. It does limit me to 3000 miles a year but last year I did right around 1500 and am on track to do about 1800 this year. The car broke 19K about 2 months ago. I think USAA wanted like 750 a year for full coverage with unlimited mileage which for me was not only a waste but should the worst happen it is still a 7 year old car by their standards so I darn sure would not be getting 25K from them.
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Old 05-31-2014, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by cdk456 View Post
I have the classic car insurance for mine. Around 300.00 a year for agreed upon coverage of 25K.
With whom did you place your classic car agreed value insurance? Can you increase the allowed mileage? Any regrets?

Thanks
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Old 06-01-2014, 07:34 AM
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I like my S2000 loud so I can't hear my wife. I am going to remove any insulation I find.
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Old 06-04-2014, 09:34 AM
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that's a good job
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