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300WHP without SC or Turbo for Less money. For your consideration

300WHP without SC or Turbo for Less money. For your consideration

Old 04-02-2010, 07:04 PM
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300WHP without SC or Turbo for Less money. For your consideration

This is what i am doing to my s2k over the span of the next 2 years. For what I want from an s2k this presents me with a better option of still getting to 300whp, having a great reliable DD, and still have a little flash, and probably being able to crush 300whp FI s2ks :-0





What you could do with your 6k you’re paying for a SC or Turbo. S2000 – BUILD!
STAGE 1:

K&N FIPK SRI - $300 – Advertised – 11hp – Reality 5-8hp.
T1R 70R-EM Sparrow Dual Exhaust - $1250 – Advertised 12hp – Reality – 10 -12 hp (from multiple dynos I’ve seen).
Hy-Tech Race Headers with High Flow Catback Pipe – 1400$ - This is an important one, not only does it add a good amount of horsepower, it’s going to free up a fair amount of hp out of your intake and exhaust to begin with. So additional HP with the test pipe – 15-17whp. No joke.

5 + 15 + 10 = 30 HP at the lowest estimated gains.

8 + 12 + 17 = 37HP maybe 40 if they work really well together.

Estimated total WHP gain – at least 30 whp maybe 40. Before you go all “No way! “ on me. While non of these mods alone might give you those kind of numbers, In conjunction with each other? They each add a little horsepower to one another and that can really add up.

STAGE 1.5 or 2.5 depending upon which you do first:

NOS Nitrous “Dry” 50 shot. $750-900 when all is said and done.

Box of Copper Spark plugs - 20$s.



Estimated wHP gain – 50whp.



Pause: For those of you, who think nitrous is a terrible idea. Nitrous is a lot better for a high compression engine than Boost is to begin with. With today's technology, it's no more dangerous than running a turbo or SC. And you get the Gains from nitrous immediately and constantly through the RPM window you set it at, so in fact you'd get your power sooner and in fact perform better while on the bottle than an s2k with the same whp through FI. Plus true gearheads like to work on their babies. Changing out spark plugs is a fun, mindless job and ritual you'll only have to do ever 3k-4k miles or 20-30lbs of boost, that will give you just a nice relaxing amount of time that you can spend working on your car and just enjoying your S2k.


Plus a 50 shot of nitrous isn't going to break anything. It's not going to make you run lean with a good nitrous kit, which for the money i've put up, you can buy. I Chose dry over wet because there is a tendency for wet kits to puddle up, especially with the S2k, and a 50 dry kit won't have the problem. Also for those who don't know, "Dry" kits nowadays, are almost like wet kits, in that they bring up extra fuel into the pistons to prevent you from running lean. So it's not going to be an issue.


STAGE 2:

AEM EMS - $1000 – $900 if you can get it used, which you can.
Tune - $250 (Depends where ya go)
Estimated Bonus HP from the Tune --…..15hp maybe 20 if you’re lucky.

Final Numbers:

15 + 50 + 30 = 95whp

20 + 50 + 40 = 110whp

Total WHP gain – between 95whp – 110hp. For a total cost of 4850
Depending upon your S2000s stock whp. You’ll end up with somewhere around 300-320whp.
All for the Price of $4970!!!

In conclusion – Some of you may be saying to yourselves…..well 1000$s isn’t that different…and I’d only get that 50whp if I’m using the nitrous. True. But it’s easier on your engine to NOT have an extra 100hp running through your engine 24/7. Plus…..Nitrous kicks ***. This set up also allows you to buy things in pieces, not have to save up 6k and spend it all at once. You’re engine will sound better (in my opinion), and you’ll also have a more reliable and better running DD. Plus when all is said and done, you’ll have a LOT of the upgrades you’d need to run a SC or a Turbo efficiently. Upgraded exhaust and headers, an EMS and tune, plus test pipe with a 1000$ left over for suspension and handling upgrades, or reinforcing your rear end or clutch.

What you can do with your extra 1000$! Anything you want!


STAGE 3:

Eibach Lowering Springs – $400
Comptech Reinforced housing - $400
Intake Manifold/Throttle body – who knows


I'll keep everyone posted with Dynos as i go through and add these mods one by one.



Okay. Whew. Questions? Opinions?
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Old 04-02-2010, 07:16 PM
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Those Hp gains are a little speculative. You will never get 100 hp with bolt on parts unless you are boosting the intake. If you want some solid NA hp then bigger pistons, Itb's a Kpro engine management system. Of course in addition while the engine out add a higher capacity clutch. Then see if you can drive smoothly enough to keep the diff in one piece.

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Old 04-02-2010, 07:31 PM
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Well i'm not getting that much hp from bolt ons. you have to keep in mind, i'm really only getting up to 250 HP with an AEM EMS Tune, Top of the line Exhaust and Headers, Test pipe, and an Intake. It's the hytech headers and the T1R Exhaust that are even going to let me get close to that. Each of those parts are the exception to the rule when it comes to modding an s2k, that supposedly give you actual HP gain. Those numbers are entirely speculative, you're right, but it's the best i can do, even if i only squeeze my way up to 240whp, that 50 shot of nitrous will put me close to the 300 range.

In all honest, i really think i'll probably run close to 90-95whp gains, but these are just the facts and figures from dynos i have looked at, and i'm going to dyno every step of the way and come out with the real gains i got in doing each step. so this is the base model. I'm skeptical if it will give all the gains i've stated, but i have hope. And even if it falls 10 or 20whp short...i can easily pump my nitrous shot up to 65. The s2k will handle that no sweat. But i don't think i'll have to. S2k Ap2 run around 206-220 whp anyway.....so it's not like i need to get anymore than 80 to meet my goals 50 of which can be a nitrous shot.

So it's a little misleading i suppose haha, in that my mods only have to get me over 250ish whp. With the mods i've listed, i think it's doable.

And i'm avoiding ITB because those are a pain in the A** to tune. That alone takes away from the reliability aspect i'm shooting for.

Plus i think this build will be easier on the rear end. you're not running 300whp constantly, and if you set the nitrous window to something like 3500rpm-6000rpms. You'll only get that extra power after you're moving a fair speed.

Last edited by Emmerick; 04-02-2010 at 07:46 PM.
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Old 04-02-2010, 09:33 PM
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Good thread here. We'll see what comes of it. I do remember Honda saying that 240hp was the approximate limit of what they could achieve...while still complying with today's stringent emission controls.

If Honda didn't have to abide by such rules, what kind of power would the S2000's engine be producing???
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Old 04-02-2010, 10:03 PM
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... So were on the same page I got my comptech supercharger for 2500 used... I put down 300whp and I dont have to hit a button that runs out.. N/A is great if your a die hard NA guy but Boosted is going to get you the real power.
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Old 04-02-2010, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by RL1924 View Post
... So were on the same page I got my comptech supercharger for 2500 used... I put down 300whp and I dont have to hit a button that runs out.. N/A is great if your a die hard NA guy but Boosted is going to get you the real power.

You were relatively fortunate. As it is, if i were to go and find all my parts used, i could probably come something close to that (which i'm going to try to do, but probably unlikely).

As far as your boost getting you the real power.....SC is a lot more limited than Turbo. So Turbo is going to get you the real 500+ power. And most turbo kits are going to run a little more than an SC.

To each their own, i'd personally rather have a really GREAT engine full of performance parts that allow me to run like a boosted car, without the boost.
Intake, Exhaust, Headers, AEM EMS and Tune, and some Nitrous > Super Charger

But you have a point, i guess my only response is that....10$'s says that with my little button, i'd have you by over a car length.....The power is more immediate, hits sooner and steadier. . And once i had the lead....you'd never get it back!
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Old 04-03-2010, 12:53 AM
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No matter how much u spend intake header and exhaust. Out of all the part you plan on buying, the nitrous and tune will be the gains. Honda wasn't stupid when they made this car. Neither should you when u start a build project. Take the money for the useless parts u want and invest in worthwhile parts like a stroker kit, forged internals, etc.

A turbo or SC can be a reliable DD if everything installed properly and has a good tune. Like stated previously, NA is only gunna go so far, and from why I've read in your posts, you believe gains on websites that are obviously exagerated a lot rather than listen to a whole bunch of people that have an S2k and have seen and experience these build projects.

Anyways goodluck with ur build. Maybe u can prove us all wrong.

Last edited by S2K Reborn; 04-03-2010 at 12:56 AM.
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Old 04-03-2010, 02:48 AM
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for what it's worth, i didn't get the info on those parts from the websites....i got all of them from consumers who'd posted a dyno. With most checking 3 or 4 dynos where i could.

But i get where your'e coming from, i'm aware that stroking the engine or ITBs would do more for me. This is by no means necessarily supposed to be the BEST use of your money.

But i'm trying to see what i can squeeze out of an NA engine with a great Tune and the best bolt on parts. I/h/e is generally nothing big on an s2k. But those particular H/E have shown big gains. So who knows...maybe i'll luck out. Either way, they are Mods i'd want to have regardless of if i ended up going FI later down the road, or anything really. And no matter what....no harm in having the best i/h/e out there . I wouldn't want my S2k to be complete too fast and have nothing left to do anyway.

So point being, i'm not delusional. I get that there are other things i could do for bigger gains. But i do want to upgrade my i/h/e regardless of what i do further down the road. And i'd rather only get a few upgrades a year a few HP at a time that i'm proud of.
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Old 04-03-2010, 05:58 AM
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you should get a 100 shot then race me or rl in a few months. We both have sc's. It will be a fun race im sure it will be a close race...........
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Old 04-03-2010, 08:48 AM
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Mugen built 2 NA engines which are based on the F20. They produce 275 hp. One is the King Motorsports car which was sold and the other is in Japan. They were bored out and tuned.

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Old 04-03-2010, 10:56 AM
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So for 5 grand you plan on having 300 whp well that is when youre pushing the button or not filling the bottle.... So you might run at best 2 tenths better than me or rl on stock boost and you spent about 2500 dollars more. Plus the need to fill the bottle and so on. Why not just save yourself 4k dollars of that and get a 100 shot and accomplish the same goal?
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Old 04-03-2010, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Emmerick View Post
You were relatively fortunate. As it is, if i were to go and find all my parts used, i could probably come something close to that (which i'm going to try to do, but probably unlikely).

As far as your boost getting you the real power.....SC is a lot more limited than Turbo. So Turbo is going to get you the real 500+ power. And most turbo kits are going to run a little more than an SC.

To each their own, i'd personally rather have a really GREAT engine full of performance parts that allow me to run like a boosted car, without the boost.
Intake, Exhaust, Headers, AEM EMS and Tune, and some Nitrous > Super Charger

But you have a point, i guess my only response is that....10$'s says that with my little button, i'd have you by over a car length.....The power is more immediate, hits sooner and steadier. . And once i had the lead....you'd never get it back!

Id get it back when you run out lol, Mine keeps going I dont have to go refill Not to mention im upping my boost for 400whp so better get a bigger bottle
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Old 04-03-2010, 04:11 PM
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Just to check it out... He is no joke of a tuner either.
http://forums.evans-tuning.com/viewt...hp?f=29&t=5961
http://forums.evans-tuning.com/viewt...hp?f=29&t=5471

As you see over on s2ki, its not that we just think its a bad idea or bashing your thoughts, but MANY people have thought/ attempted and it didnt work out. I mean if thats what you WANT to do then hell go for it, But if its just the numbers your trying to get its really not the best way to do it. As for ITB's I have seen guys get crap numbers with those too and always need screwing around with. As you said I was fortunate to get the blower for that price Im really not they normally go for around 3k. There also was a guy recently did the 2.4 stroker kit and pulled 280, but he spent BANK to do it.
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Old 04-03-2010, 06:07 PM
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Old 04-03-2010, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by RL1924 View Post
Just to check it out... He is no joke of a tuner either.
http://forums.evans-tuning.com/viewt...hp?f=29&t=5961
http://forums.evans-tuning.com/viewt...hp?f=29&t=5471

As you see over on s2ki, its not that we just think its a bad idea or bashing your thoughts, but MANY people have thought/ attempted and it didnt work out. I mean if thats what you WANT to do then hell go for it, But if its just the numbers your trying to get its really not the best way to do it. As for ITB's I have seen guys get crap numbers with those too and always need screwing around with. As you said I was fortunate to get the blower for that price Im really not they normally go for around 3k. There also was a guy recently did the 2.4 stroker kit and pulled 280, but he spent BANK to do it.
No you all make fair points, and that's why i posted the build, not for praise, but mostly for criticism. And i think there's some good points to be made. Im definitely going to still put on the i/h/e/ because even with a super or turbo, those are still nice things to have. And no harm in having the best. But you're right, before i put on or hook up any sort of nitrous, i'm going to just tune and dyno those things, and if i'm wrong and i'm only getting like 215-230whp. I will just save up and pick up a used SC kit. Either way, i definitely want to have a great exhaust system and intake.

I have a question though as far as the order of things. I know that in order to GET the best usage out of my i/h/e/tp, i need a tune. But if i installed them all first without a tune, am i going to risk running too lean? CAuse if that's the case, i will probably get a tune earlier on.
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Old 04-03-2010, 11:08 PM
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^ nah you will be 100% fine with header exhaust tp without a tune, I would recommend holding off on the intake incase you want to go s/c or turbo. Im glad to see your understanding and not fighting it. I know how its tough when you have this great plan in your head and it really doesn't work to plan or people shut you down. Like i said before its just that people have done it before trust me. When it comes to an exhaust too you really dont need to spend 2k on a baller exhaust. A 70mm exhaust is a 70mm exhaust to an extent, If you buy a $100 ebay exhaust the welds may crack may not but lol why not get a semi decent exhaust
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Old 04-04-2010, 05:28 PM
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all great points but i must say that i/h/e might put a frown upon your face on the dyno with the tune, get a full exhaust and intake, leave the headers alone and look into used sc's, but in all honesty do what will make you happy.
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Old 04-05-2010, 01:06 AM
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Exhaust and Intake are definitely first, then i'll dyno and see where i'm at.

If i've miraculously squeezed 20HP out of them (obviously not going to happen)

But if it by some chance of god did work, and i was at about 220whp with just an intake and exhaust, then id probably go ahead and splurge on headers and hondata IMG and pray for an extra 10-15hp with the high flow cat and a great tune, cause i can definitely settle for 235-240whp.


But if i'm really only getting 215 or 210, (which is what's probably going to happen) i will call it a day and go ahead and invest in a used SC or Turbo.

I don't mind holding onto a 300$ K&N intake anyway.
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Old 04-05-2010, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by RL1924 View Post
^ nah you will be 100% fine with header exhaust tp without a tune, I would recommend holding off on the intake incase you want to go s/c or turbo. Im glad to see your understanding and not fighting it. I know how its tough when you have this great plan in your head and it really doesn't work to plan or people shut you down. Like i said before its just that people have done it before trust me. When it comes to an exhaust too you really dont need to spend 2k on a baller exhaust. A 70mm exhaust is a 70mm exhaust to an extent, If you buy a $100 ebay exhaust the welds may crack may not but lol why not get a semi decent exhaust
Hell I have an Invida exhaust and had to reweld 2 sections of it... thank God for my dads tig welder
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Old 04-05-2010, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by RL1924 View Post
... So were on the same page I got my comptech supercharger for 2500 used... I put down 300whp and I dont have to hit a button that runs out.. N/A is great if your a die hard NA guy but Boosted is going to get you the real power.
n/a is stupid.

the entire n/a thread on s2ki is full of idiots with too much money and not enough brains.

ohhh, thats cool man you spent $15k+ and now make <240rwhp and your dyno charts are no more impressive than the greddy turbo kit.

"ohhhh but its n/a power!" stfu power is power. the greddy kit has a tiny lil baby turbo so it makes power under the curve, which is what all these people want. annnnnnnnd you dont have to have a hookup to get the car inspected because it uses the OEM ECU.
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Old 04-05-2010, 08:03 AM
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http://www.inlinepro.com/s1/s-2-tuning-services.aspx
look at inline pros all motor s2k.. 264 and 193 tq and thats coming from a stroker 2.5
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Old 04-05-2010, 08:12 AM
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and an easy 5 figures of work

there's a greddy kit NIB on s2ki for <$3500, you're going to make 300rwhp out of it and it can be installed in a day if you know what you're doing.
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Old 04-05-2010, 11:03 AM
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Either way, i definitely want to have a great exhaust system and intake.

yeah, because that crap they threw in at the factory definately ain't gonna last.........

this thread makes me chuckle.

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Old 04-05-2010, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by jagg View Post
yeah, because that crap they threw in at the factory definately ain't gonna last.........

this thread makes me chuckle.

jagg

?? I never said they were crap, i know they kick *** and Honda has done everything.

But i like the sound and a few extra hp never hurt?

It's MY S.....i'll Season to taste thank ya very much.
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Old 04-05-2010, 09:28 PM
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Or you can just pop in the Brittney Spears CD, instant 100rwhp+ gains.
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Old 04-06-2010, 05:36 AM
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I forgot.....they're re-running Fast and Furious on HBO this month.
It explains some of these recent threads.


season to taste, yup.......have at it, man.
good luck with the build up.

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Old 04-06-2010, 06:33 AM
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Hy-tech headers are the s&*t as far as bolt ons but no way in hell he's gonna get to this goal. kpro 1700 + tune, header 1500+ retune (+the hytech test pipe that has to be ran with the header) plus T1R 1k wow he just spent enough to bolt on a Vortech kit! not counting true NA parts like TB, HG, Intake and all that jazz. good luck on makin the companys some $ remember to buy USDM if ur gonna waste money

Last edited by gomarlins3; 04-06-2010 at 07:38 AM. Reason: Profanity
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Old 04-06-2010, 07:38 AM
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All I can say is good luck.
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Old 04-06-2010, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Emmerick View Post
?? I never said they were crap, i know they kick *** and Honda has done everything.

But i like the sound and a few extra hp never hurt?

It's MY S.....i'll Season to taste thank ya very much.
we're just telling you ahead of time that its a complete waste of time and money.

you're going to end up spending $10k and probably weeks if not months of downtime and end up with:
a car that wont pass inspection

a car that probably doesnt make anywhere near 300rwhp

a whole lot of justification for spending all that money for nothing "Well i LIKE n/a power! cuz its cool! and you had to cheat with a supercharger so THERE!"
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Old 04-06-2010, 09:05 AM
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Look this motor is the BEST n/a it will ever be the way it is... unless by some freak accident your an inventor and can improve on this.... Ferrari JUST NOW beat them out for a n/a motor hp/liter.

"The F20C produces the highest specific power output for any naturally aspirated 2.0L piston engine in a car worth less than US$100,000, at 120 hp (89 kW) per liter, ahead of the 1.6 L (98 cu in) Honda B16B engine found in the 1996-2000 Honda Civic Type R producing 185 bhp (138 kW) for a specific power of 115.8 bhp (86.4 kW) per liter. In fact, the F20C held the record for producing the highest specific output for any production naturally aspirated engine until Ferrari released the 458 Italia in 2010. The Italia produces 127 HP/L, besting the F20C by 3.5 HP/L."

from wiki.... so look yea do whatever you want... but even ferrari cant do that much better even 10 years later.

Its a waste of time.
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Old 04-06-2010, 03:50 PM
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Reading Comprehension > All of you apparently.
I don't know maybe you are just BUT I GOT It. Christ, i'm not suffering under any of the illusions that i was when i originally posted this? Forgive me if i DONT MIND investing money into my car even if i change my mind later down the road. I'm not setting up to spend 10k? How the hell did you even get that number? I'm setting up to spend $1500ish. TIR Exhaust and a K&N Intake. I get that with another 1k i could buy a used sc, but let's make this clear. I don't care? You'd need an exhaust with a turbo anyway, and i'd get a turbo over an SC, so really my only potentially wasted investment is 300$. OMMGZZZZZ

Let's revisit my last post, the one you all are replying to, and see if we can get it to stick this time.

Originally Posted by Emmerick View Post
Exhaust and Intake are definitely first, then i'll dyno and see where i'm at.

If i've miraculously squeezed 20HP out of them (obviously not going to happen)

But if it by some chance of god did work, and i was at about 220whp with just an intake and exhaust, then id probably go ahead and splurge on headers and hondata IMG and pray for an extra 10-15hp with the high flow cat and a great tune, cause i can definitely settle for 235-240whp.


But if i'm really only getting 215 or 210, (which is what's probably going to happen) i will call it a day and go ahead and invest in a used SC or Turbo.

I don't mind holding onto a 300$ K&N intake anyway.

How can i make that any more clear.

I have no fast and the furious aspirations? I have no misconceptions about the realistic gains of these parts.

An intake and Exhaust first, then we'll see where i'm at.

Point of logic, clearly the stock f20c isn't the best possible engine ever ever if you get even ONE horsepower gain from an intake. So stop your blind worship. Maybe it's the best STOCK N/A hp/liter engine, but obviously if bolt on mods like an intake add even ONE horsepower. It's not the best NA engine possible.

Last edited by Emmerick; 04-06-2010 at 03:53 PM.
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Old 04-06-2010, 03:56 PM
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This is interesting. Have you already had her dyno'd to see where you starting at with HP and are you going to have her dyno'd after each stage?

Keep us updated and show us your numbers along the way.
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Old 04-06-2010, 05:03 PM
  #33  
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Not yet, i'm trying to find a place where i can get a dyno membership instead of paying per dyno. I've been told this is possible.

But yeah i'm going to dyno before i start, and at each step on the way, so other people can see the gains from each part. Unless i go FI after the exhaust and intake because i wasn't getting enough whp, in which case there's already worlds of information about that.
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Old 04-06-2010, 05:48 PM
  #34  
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Unless i go FI after the exhaust and intake because i wasn't getting enough whp, in which case there's already worlds of information about that.

start there......don't stop 'till you hit 500hp.
then you and I can race.....thru the tunnels between here 'n Mexico.



bustin' your chops here, sonny.

rock on,
jagg
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Old 04-06-2010, 06:22 PM
  #35  
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well what your doing is cool but its def not my thing. I personally think you have pretty high goals and a very pricey build going but either way good luck with it and report back with your findings.
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Old 04-06-2010, 07:05 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by jagg View Post
start there......don't stop 'till you hit 500hp.
then you and I can race.....thru the tunnels between here 'n Mexico.



bustin' your chops here, sonny.

rock on,
jagg

Hahahahahahahaha okay not gunna lie Jagg. that comment killed me. hahahahahaha. Clearly we've both at least seen F&F hahahahahaha.

i'm still laughing.
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Old 04-07-2010, 07:35 AM
  #37  
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I'm not gonna bust ur ***** dude. If u got the time, money, and energy to do then, do it. But these cars don't have cheap aftermarket parts that work! if u could make that kinda power for under 5k every track time and then world would offer u sex to plan their builds it's just u're math just realllllyyyyy reaallllllllyyyyyyy sux. on stage 3 of ur future build u forgot that a diff housing is cheapish and all, but the new ring, pinion, bearings, shims and tools to install said parts or pay someone like puddy to do it build will run atleast 1k for a stage 1 build and up to 3k for the higher end kinda stuff. I've played with cars for years now and been around ole timers rocking Chevy's since I was pooping green a good formula to follow is alway add 30% to what u're expecting if u're math don't sux like ur does. IE shipping broke bolts and all that kinda crap. good luck and keep us posted n again I hope to see what kinda gains one could make for 1.5k but my guess is 10whp tops (spray not included)
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Old 06-26-2010, 03:32 AM
  #38  
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@turbosix


ALL I GOTTA SAY IS THIS:

N/A Evasive motorsports time attack s2k, KILLS the AFI turbo s2k around the track. All day, everyday. And thats no BS. Go NA!
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Old 06-26-2010, 03:38 AM
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also just in case you guys DONT follow motorsports @ all. The evasive has a estimated 255-280 whp while the afi has 400!

Numbers are great but if you actually like using the car for what it was designed for then it doesnt matter.

Evasive learned that and detuned the car after losing to a 500 whp supra in their class last year. Oh, and btw the evasive cars is under more restrictions in its class (street) than the afi (unlimited).

woot woot.
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Old 06-26-2010, 06:20 AM
  #40  
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Nicely done Dmaye.
Thanks.

'Godda whole new batch'a gonna goin' on.
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