5th gear promblems, can anyone help?

Old 09-15-2010, 10:47 AM
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5th gear promblems, can anyone help?

i have a 2002 ap1 s2k, had it about 3 months now,
and recently its been difficult putting it in 5th, then i couldnt put it in, so i drove it for awhile just going from 4th to 5th,
i bit the bullet and opened the centre console and took the shifter out, it was covered in crap so i cleaned it up and regreased it and it feels alot smother in the rest of the gears and i could put it into 5th but it popped out as soon as i let the clutch go, i then took it out and put it back in just incase it wasnt seated propperly and im now back to the beginning of it going into 5th but it being hard to do so but it now doesnt pop out.

has anybody had any similar problems?
also would a gearbox fluid change help?
honda quoted me £3500 for a new gearbox minus labour, im not ready to shell that amount out just yet :/
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Old 09-15-2010, 12:02 PM
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If the shifter is in neutral, push down on it. Does it pop back up when you release it? If so your cleaning was sufficient. If not you need to take it apart again and polish the aluminum guide until it does this up and down smoothly. Honda recommends a high temp urea based grease which they sell.

Jonathan
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Old 09-15-2010, 03:02 PM
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hey thanks for answering, it always has popped back up, admittedly it feels smoother now ive cleaned it.

im worried that its the syncros,
ive read other peoples problems regarding 1st and 2nd and they've had to change them, its just strange that mines 5th :/

i'll have one last go cleaning it up and i'll find this high temp stuff you've mentioned.
thanks
carl

* i ment ive been driving it going from 4th to 6th, butterfingers*
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Old 09-16-2010, 02:18 AM
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Uhh, you don't by chance ever "skipshift", do you? Ya know, going from 2nd to 4th, or 3rd to 5th, that kind of stuff?
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Old 09-19-2010, 11:21 AM
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i did abit yeh, and ive had to do it alot now my 5th is buggering,
but now my clutch has gone,
just going to get a gearbox refurb and new clutch kit,
just got to accept the fact the car is 8 years old and some bits need doing, got it a good price anyway

anyway i assume by u mentioning this that skip shifting isnt healthy for the car? it seemed happy enough to do it?
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Old 09-20-2010, 03:11 PM
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Unfortunately yes. Skip shifting is something you should definatley not do in an S2000. The sychro's in the gearbox are weaker than most cars. In 2004 they strengthened them from brass to carbon fiber, but still weak.

I've had about 8 manual shift cars and have skip shifted them all for about 100,000 miles apiece with no problems. Did it in the S2000 and within 20,000 miles I lost 5th gear. There are many, many other people in the same position.

Here is a post written by a former Honda engineer whose job it was to inspect broken warranty parts (it's from the s2ki.com forum) that explains it all. Fortunatley, 5th gear is probably the least necessary gear, so I've just lived with it for a year.

http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=19674

http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php...&#entry1073917

http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php...&#entry4483687
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Old 09-23-2010, 10:53 AM
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ah nice one david, that was enlightening changed the way i think about my driving style now :P
and i also have a better understanding of the transmission
thanks alot! should stop me messing this next box up :P
im guessing my clutch going on 93k miles isnt that unsual though is it?
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Old 09-24-2010, 07:51 AM
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I'm at 107,000 with my original clutch. I got the car at 65,000. The guy before me drove it like a grandma. I drive it hard.
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Old 09-29-2010, 06:02 AM
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haha its what it was built for lets be honest,
ive taken the gear box out and sent it to a repair place, should have it back 2moro morning along with a new engine mount because the o/s one was completely shorn and my engine has been supported by one mount and the brace that holds the gearbox up!
new clutch arrived fast though, should hopefully have it back on saturday,
it'll have been 3 weeks since i last drove D:
hopefully that'll be it for a long time now
and thanks again for point that stuff out!
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Old 09-29-2010, 06:57 AM
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So, tell us about the repair place. How much to repair it and exactly what are they doing? And how much for the removal and reinstallation?
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Old 09-29-2010, 11:16 AM
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well they said £200 for removal and installation but i did that myself, and i know why its so much now lol
the repair place is near bradford, got my 5th set replaced for £600 and got a one year warranty on it, they couriered it from my house, and its should be at my work at sometime tomorrow and they did that for £45
They charge 600 to completely sort each gear no matter its condition, wether it only needs one bit or every thing, which is kinda sucky if they aint much wrong but hey, its cheaper than the £3500 honda want for a complete new box right? lol
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Old 09-29-2010, 12:33 PM
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Honda changed my buzzy clutch disc soon after I bought the car in Nov 99 but the gearbox is original and it has 120000 miles on it. The LSD was changed at 85000, there was almost nothing left of the original one when it was disassembled. And do drive it like a road racer any chance I get.

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Old 09-29-2010, 09:53 PM
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Interesting...Here, I've gotten quotes of 2-3 hours for removal and replace if I wanted to buy a used/rebuilt/new tranny. Or, about 7-9 hours for removal/replace and repair of the 5th gear set. A new 5th gear set from Honda is only about $300. If we look at $80 an hour labor, that's about a thousand total to do what you did. You paid 800 pounds (sorry, I don't know where the proper key is for your currency!) or so? Or do you include that 600 pounds you mentioned, I'm a little confused there...
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Old 10-04-2010, 02:41 PM
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the place i sent it to asked for £600($949) just to change the 5th set
they wanted £200($316) to take the box out and put it back in
which i did with the help of a friend as i thought that was abit ridic.
i had to pay £47($74) to get it couriered to and from the place as i couldnt take it myself
also put a new clutch in myself which cost me £200($316)
got teh box back in now and the problem with 5th is healed, feels perfect again, but now the problem has suspiciously moved over to 2nd, i find it difficult to change down into 2nd from 3rd,
a friend advises e that it could be to do with my new clutch, however im not sure,
either way i cant get hold of this gearbox repair centre and its sending me round the bend :@
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Old 10-04-2010, 02:47 PM
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take into account, that british "mechanics" like to screw their customers over, and will try anything to soakl up every last penny from them, my quotes were all without vat which they didnt tell me untill i came to pay by card and they slapped an extra 17.5% ontop of the £600 to which i was not happy so i had to go and withdraw cash to avoid having to pay this extra 17.5%, they arent entirely honest, which is why i find the fact that i now have a problem where there wasnt one before very suspicious and above all, upsetting
i just want my car back to good health
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Old 12-12-2010, 08:10 AM
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So how's your car now. Give us an update.
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Old 12-12-2010, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by davidc View Post
Unfortunately yes. Skip shifting is something you should definatley not do in an S2000. The sychro's in the gearbox are weaker than most cars. In 2004 they strengthened them from brass to carbon fiber, but still weak.
Those tech articles were an interesting read. Thanks David.

What I took away from them was that rushing the syncros is the real problem. When I skip shift it's because I'm loafing along. I've never ground a gear or heard any protest from the trans. I do not rush the skip shift. I've never skip shifted at higher rpm, like above 5,000.

That 1-2 speed shift is an issue however. I bought my '05 used and the 1-2 shift is notchy, more so than most manual cars I've owned. I would never try a "clutchless" shift (cringe) but it is fun to shift quickly and kind of necessary for a quick 0-60 run.My car is pretty much put away for the winter but some time between now and next driving season it's getting all new fluids including a tranny and diff fluid change. I'm hoping that will help smooth that 1-2 shift.
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Old 02-03-2012, 11:21 AM
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oops

kind of forgot to reply, but the car seemed to settle and for over year i've had no problems
however ... problem with 5th is back, lovely.
havent changed the tranny oil since the work was done so i have a sneaking suspicion that it'd could have something to do with that, changing the oil this weekend and seeing where it gets me

how often is oil change in the tranny recommended?
tempted to buy a second gearbox and fill it with new bits from honda myself, unless anyone knows a cheaper place to get ap1 internals?
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Old 02-03-2012, 11:23 AM
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check your linkage
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Old 04-17-2012, 10:38 AM
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stumbled across a guy on the forums called billman, revered almost as an s2000 god
i used his method to fix the gear box completely free, drives like a dream now!

http://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/9153...orking-at-all/
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Old 04-17-2012, 10:53 AM
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From what I hear Billman's awesome. Glad you got it fixed!
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