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Old 08-11-2008, 08:11 AM   #1
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Over revved due to miss shift 3rd to 2nd Need Advice

Miss shifted my 2002 f20c from 3rd to 2nd. I was at about 8500 rpms in third when misshifted. It ran fine back to my friends house no power loss no leaks nothing at all. When I went to leave that nigtit did not start. I sent it to the dodge dealership I bought it from and they sent it to thehond dealership. Dodge is claiming I bent all 16 valves and warped all 4 pistonheads. I called honda and they told me they are ordering 1 head and if that is the case then the only valves that should be bent are the 4 around the 1 warped head. I am going to honda sometime tomorrow to see if the head is truly warped.

I was wondering a few things shouldn't the car have shut off immediately after over revving due to some sort of fuel shut off and would over revvingcause all the problems dodge/ honda is claiming?

Last edited by P.O.L.A.R; 08-11-2008 at 08:13 AM.
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Old 08-11-2008, 08:19 AM   #2
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For starters, don't take your car to a Dodge dealership, even if you did buy it there. Also, our engine only has 1 head, not 4. Bending ALL 16 valves is pretty unlikely, but you were at 8500 RPM when you mis shifted.

Our head looks like this:
Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.

And yes, mis shifting and over revving at the rpm you did could destroy this engine.
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Old 08-11-2008, 08:31 AM   #3
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so let me get this right you were in 3rd at 8500 rmp and tryed to down shift to second?
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Old 08-11-2008, 08:36 AM   #4
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Ouch. Best of luck POLAR. At the point you over revved, it wouldn't matter if there were a fuel shut-off. It's still a mechanical issue of stuff flying around WAY too fast, whether the pistons were actually firing or not.
Best advice is to see for yourself. They'll likely do a compression check first, then tear it down if it turns out the way it might. If they do tear it down, have them show you what's going on to all of the parts that they propose replacing. Over revving can be BAD... but we're all just speculating on what actually happened.

Ouch. Best of luck, POLAR.
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Old 08-11-2008, 08:39 AM   #5
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so let me get this right you were in 3rd at 8500 rmp and tryed to down shift to second?
No I miss 4th and fell in scond.
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Old 08-11-2008, 09:00 AM   #6
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'Ain't seein' any mention'a rev-limiter.
Anybody seein' any mention'a the standard-issue rev-limiter?
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Old 08-11-2008, 09:19 AM   #7
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the rev-limiter will keep you from over-revving on the way up, but if you mis-shift to a lower gear there is nothing the computer can do to prevent the imminent grenade explosion--even if you cut off the fuel the engine would still spin if the clutch was engaged. ka-boom!!! but, jj, you know all that.
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Old 08-11-2008, 09:20 AM   #8
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Java, I was thinking a rev limter only applies when you give accelerate up to redline. That's when the throttle should cut out. How would that make a difference on a down shift from 8500?
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Old 08-11-2008, 10:21 AM   #9
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What did you do immediately after the mis-shift? The only thing you should do is to disengage the clutch ASAP.

Yes, a mechanical over-rev could cause all of your engine problems that Dodge and Honda are claiming.
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Old 08-11-2008, 10:36 AM   #10
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What did you do immediately after the mis-shift? The only thing you should do is to disengage the clutch ASAP.

Yes, a mechanical over-rev could cause all of your engine problems that Dodge and Honda are claiming.
I pulled it out asap but it was too late obviously.
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Old 08-11-2008, 10:39 AM   #11
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Well I went to honda and checked it out I bent 5 valves and the head (not piston heads) is shot. I "warped" a section of the head. To remachine is costly and for a little more a new head is the better option. All in all I a going to pay roughly 5300. Should have taken it to a local mechanic my loss thinking the warranty would cover it oh well.
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Old 08-11-2008, 12:21 PM   #12
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Ouch, that sucks, good luck with the re-build, maybe use this as an opportunity to put in some upgrades? Either way best of luck!
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Old 08-11-2008, 12:33 PM   #13
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Yeah, but whut happenz when half-cocked'z all yuh got?
Sorry guyz, my speed-readin' ain't whudd'itt use'ta be.
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Old 08-11-2008, 12:54 PM   #14
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Well I went to honda and checked it out I bent 5 valves and the head (not piston heads) is shot. I "warped" a section of the head. To remachine is costly and for a little more a new head is the better option. All in all I a going to pay roughly 5300. Should have taken it to a local mechanic my loss thinking the warranty would cover it oh well.
Thats a lot of cash for a miss shift. Maybe a second appriasel might not be a bad idea. Unless you've got a lot of cash that is.............good luck tho....


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Old 08-11-2008, 01:13 PM   #15
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Sorry to hear. I know it's no consolation, but it could've been a lot worse. when you anti-nausea medication has kicked in, check this link out:

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2351236&page=1

Scroll down a bit to see some true ugliness.

'N' Java, thatz de funniest re-tracshun I e'er had 'casion ta speed-read.
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Old 08-11-2008, 01:26 PM   #16
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The way I figure it, the damage could have been MUCH worse. Third gear is a 1.481:1 ratio. Second gear is 2.045:1 ratio. That would mean an engine speed increase of 38%. 8500 RPMs x 1.38 = 11730 RPMs. That zingin her!

You may not think so, but you're lucky. You could have easily damaged the pistons as well.
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Old 08-11-2008, 01:47 PM   #17
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'Ain't seein' any mention'a rev-limiter.
Anybody seein' any mention'a the standard-issue rev-limiter?
Unfortunately this is a mechanical over rev and a rev limiter would not have prevented the over rev.
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Old 08-11-2008, 01:48 PM   #18
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How did the head get warped from this?
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Old 08-11-2008, 01:48 PM   #19
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holy crap, I hope never to see carnage like that link in my life, that was bad.

and thankd God that it wasn't that bad on this F-Engine!
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Old 08-11-2008, 02:11 PM   #20
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holy crap, I hope never to see carnage like that link in my life, that was bad.

and thankd God that it wasn't that bad on this F-Engine!
I know. I can only assume it wasn't the owner taking those pics... I know I'd have to be heavily sedated to hold the camera steady.
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Old 08-11-2008, 03:05 PM   #21
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Did they already take off the head? If your valves are bent, it sounds like you had some valve float and they were smacking the pistons. As stated above, your pistons may be damaged as well.
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Old 08-11-2008, 03:19 PM   #22
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I did the same exact thing on the race track a year ago. I was accelerating in 3rd and decided to shift a little early and go through the esses in 4th. When I shifted, I accidentally hit 2nd, but I caught it as I felt the car beginning to lurch from the downshift. I pushed the clutch in as soon as I felt it. A year and 4 months later and it's still as strong as ever.

I think you need to get a second opinion on the cost of machining the head. I had mine done when I got a new engine 60k miles ago from an oil starvation problem and they only charged me $380 to do it.
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Old 08-11-2008, 04:37 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by P.O.L.A.R View Post
Miss shifted my 2002 f20c from 3rd to 2nd. I was at about 8500 rpms in third when misshifted. It ran fine back to my friends house no power loss no leaks nothing at all.
Sounds like a classic S2000 over rev. Valves float, Keepers rattle and crack, valves drop down the road a ways.
Ya can't do that.
IF you had shut it down and pulled the valve cover you MAY have seen the valves sitting lower in the springs PREPRATORY to actually letting go and contacting the pistons. Thats the usual MO for mechanical over revs.
It's also a ginormous IF. I would say most users would not do these things.
I would have towed the thing home and checked them. But I know about this scenario because I have read all there is to read on these cars on every interweb forum there is. And you are NOT the first person to do this. Not by a long shot.
I have also caught myself doing the same thing before an actual over rev. That damn centering spring in the shifter almost got me a couple of times early on.
Anyway, I know the horse is already out of the barn, but maybe this might help the next guy. And there will be a next guy soon enough.
Sorry for your troubles and I hope she's fixed up soon.
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Old 08-12-2008, 05:52 AM   #24
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How did the head get warped from this?


I'm wondering the same thing.

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Old 08-12-2008, 05:52 AM   #25
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I'm wondering the same thing.

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Maybe they were referring to the driver...
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Old 08-12-2008, 05:58 AM   #26
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Bad Dez, Bad!!! Now you have to go on "time out" for 5 minutes.....
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Old 08-12-2008, 06:18 AM   #27
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Bad Dez, Bad!!! Now you have to go on "time out" for 5 minutes.....
awwwwwwwww mannnnnnn........
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Old 08-12-2008, 09:01 AM   #28
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Maybe they were referring to the driver...
Oh... dude. That's cold. I'm smilin'... but I ain't feelin good about it! Dude... that's cold!
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Old 11-08-2010, 05:04 PM   #29
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Hey guys, sorry to bring up such an old post but... after reading all of this stuff, it made me worry even more. I was in 4th at 83-85 and shifted into 3rd on accident. I ended up at 83mph in 3rd hitting the limiter. I was wondering if the damage would be the same? I'm driving an 06 ap2 so yeah... info would be greatly appreciated
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Old 11-08-2010, 05:26 PM   #30
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I think you should be fine. If it was bouncing off the rev limiter then I think that's a good sign because the rev limiter is doing its job. If you over revved it too much then the rev limiter would be useless. I think the AP2's go to around 80+- in 3rd so it shouldn't be too bad. And engine redlines/rev limiters are put lower to be safe, so an ap2 could probably rev a bit more than 8000 rpms safely. As long as nothings leaking, no noises and the car feels fine, it should be good.
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Old 11-08-2010, 05:37 PM   #31
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Not that I recommend testing it, but, it would seem that the 06+ cars may use the VSA system to prevent an over rev in that situation. I miss shifted on my way back to Ohio after picking up the car from the dealer in FL. Instead of a blown engine, I just left two pretty black stripes on I75.
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Old 11-08-2010, 05:41 PM   #32
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I started easing the clutch out in 2nd when I wanted a 6 - 4 downshift to pass on the freeway about a week after getting my car. Thank God I realized that something was really wrong and put the clutch back in before I ended up joining this club.

Sorry about the carnage man. That just sucks.
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Old 11-08-2010, 07:02 PM   #33
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Phew..thanks guys, really eased out my nerves You guys are freaking fasttt at replying
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Old 11-08-2010, 08:09 PM   #34
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Not that I recommend testing it, but, it would seem that the 06+ cars may use the VSA system to prevent an over rev in that situation. I miss shifted on my way back to Ohio after picking up the car from the dealer in FL. Instead of a blown engine, I just left two pretty black stripes on I75.
VSA will NOT help with a mechanical over-rev. The two strips on I-75 weren't the VSA they were the tires giving out.

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Old 11-08-2010, 09:01 PM   #35
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Yeah, VSA is stability control and will brake a wheel or cut gas to prevent an oversteer or understeer situation.
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Old 11-08-2010, 09:13 PM   #36
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Well if they say the head is junk, I'd like to buy it off of you.
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Old 11-08-2010, 09:13 PM
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